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[Proposal/POC] Sensor overhaul #2533
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As someone who loves the idea of a more sim-like sensor experience, I want to like this. In this state though it feels like a few things are missing. The biggest is a chicken-and-egg problem: signal values on entities aren't particularly meaningful because there hasn't been a meaningful reason to pay attention to them without a view like this. Those values should be revisited, either as part of this PR or after some iteration of it is implemented. Aside from that:
And then the figurative elephant in the room: as it stands, this doesn't really add much to the game as a separate screen. There's no clear demonstration on what this screen does in existing scenarios, or what scenarios might be possible with this screen that aren't easy or possible to implement without it. For instance, there'd need to be more controversial additions to make this more useful than Science scanning, such as the potential of cloaked ships, ECM/radar jamming that needs to be cut through, transponder spoofing, or long-range navigation.
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Thank you for the very thorough review, I agree there are many things missing especially considering I did not want to commit too much to a full feature, but just a POC. I want to reemphasize that this is not just a screen, but also a tool for development and scripting. Answering in order:
Now as for the last section, I would tend to disagree on the fact that new features are needed to justify a sensor screen. Any scenario that involves searching an artifact or following a strange signal can be used with the sensor screen. https://github.com/Xansta/EEScenarios/blob/master/scenario_27_liberation.lua In this scenario, players have to find unknown devices that are not visible on the map. We failed the scenario several times in a row and I believe such a screen would have improved our playthrough the first time around as we had not really found the anomalous entity. |
I'd suggest a GuiSlider zoom control, as used on other radar screens with adjustable view distances. It doesn't have to be connected to the mouse wheel but could still be controlled by manipulating the slider.
I don't think I communicated this point very well, then. The signals of occluding objects would still occlude sensor readings that target the space behind it, just as they occlude the radar visualization on Science. I'm not suggesting the bending of spacetime here. If we're behaving like these signals represent something like linear signal reflection, then the suggestion is to display reflections from a given pulse range. That would include signals from occluding entities like nebulae, but not from non-occluding entities like ships. That too is consistent with how Science works, since they can see traces for ships that are located behind other ships, but not traces for ships that are located behind occluding entities. Since it sounds like you're also not interested in an A-scan view:
then for me the Sensor screen's value becomes more difficult to understand compared to Science, which gets the data derived from an A-scan view (distance, heading, and relative speed) for free even for unscanned entities. In other words, in practice it sounds like this should be used more like high-frequency sonar despite the visualizations resembling active radar. With better SNR it might be valuable if the Science radar didn't exist, but between the SNR and lack of tuning parameters it can't be used to plot the position of most entities outside of Science radar range, except for those like planets and nebulae which already appear up on Relay. I'd reconsider this point on range, in other words. I'm reluctant to dismiss your intent, but in this implementation I'd need to see an active demonstration to understand how it'd be either useful or fun in the context of an EE scenario. I don't think any amount of description in text would communicate it.
If the Sensors screen could demonstrate functionality in Liberation Day without any changes to the scenario, I think it'd be very informative. I'd likewise be curious about @Xansta 's thoughts as the scenario's designer on both the potential effects of a Sensors screen on Liberation Day and the current difficulty without it. (I can't get Liberation Day to run on this branch, so I can't test it on my own.) Though to be clear, I consider that to be part of my chicken-and-egg point about a lack of signal data implementation and reference throughout EE. The presence of a Sensors screen should result in changes to signal data values on entities, and those changes should be designed around its presence. My relevant point at the end that you're responding to is more about whether and how Sensors would be useful outside of the context of scenario-specific implementations (which is something I'm wrestling with now with the tractor/utility beam). Does it allow for new ship types and interactions, and how do those enhance, change, or break gameplay in scenarios or freeform GM'd sessions that aren't designed around their existence? |
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Agreed for the slider. I understand better now, having an active sonar (or A-scan view) is definitely something that could be very interesting for the sensor screen. Having read about A-scans, a nebula could send all your signal back to you actually. For now I only did a screen that basically is a passive hydrophone because it was the closest to the existing raw sensor data. The sensor screen's in it's current state would for when a target is too far to be on the science radar. Some example could be
For now I would have placed the sensor screen in the extra screens, not putting emphasis on it too much as I would not want it to take too big of a place. I would see it as a screen used by people who have a deep understanding of the raw sensor data system and who would want to push it a bit more. |
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So, the fireworks artifact in Liberation Day is specifically designed to be hard to "see" on the Science and Relay screens. I did not make the three (red, green, blue/biological, electric, gravity [no correlation]) minimally registering or anything like that, I just made the radar trace the same color as the background. The fireworks object is very clear when it's in a nebula. It can also be visually identified when it crosses a grid line. Even with knowledgeable science officers, the fireworks object is hard to detect because most Science officers still rely heavily on the radar trace visually pinpointing the location. An extra sensor screen could improve the chances of locating the object, however, since Liberation Day is already crowded with many different objects, picking out the fireworks object would still be a challenge. BTW, locating the object is only the first part of the solution. The crew still has to get through the puzzle associated with discovering the fireworks object's deactivation code. Something else to consider: On the science screen, you can tell the primary sensor range boundary because it's the edge of the large circle. On the new sensor screen, you're reaching farther, specifically to the limits of the raw data availability. It would be nice to know on the new screen where the primary sensors end and the "stretch" sensors begin. Perhaps another line at the range of the primary sensors similar to what helm/weapons sees when they have two beam weapons with the same arc but different ranges. |
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I agree for the range, if there is agreed potential for integration I would work on the interface for a second iteration. I would likely include a slider for zoom as well as two range indicators for radar and raw radar range. |
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That is helpful. I didn't know what "Link Probe" did in this context, since that's not how probe linking works in the Science/Relay context. "Switch to Probe" or "Probe View" might be clearer. |

This PR proposes an overhaul of the raw sensor data system. The objective is not to merge this as it is, but for others to try out. Depending on the feedback I will separate in smaller PRs for integration.
The main objective of this PR is the following:
Other notes:
Sensor screen screenshot to show new raw sensor
Please note that the screenshot do not convey the dynamic nature of the raw sensor data.
Kesler spawn, the asteroid ring shows a higher gravitational density to the side where there are many asteroids together
Scurvy scavenger spawn, showing how nebula combines
The omicron plague spawn